I was googling around and I have to link to this--Dan Hoyt, who is our most outspoken right-wing Christian character on campus, has a blog. Here you can read his attack on Zimmerman and his absurd claim that evolution is a religion.
Hoyt's Opinion February 8, 2006
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Here you can read his attack on Zimmerman and his absurd claim that evolution is a religion.
oh but it is! the church grows daily
I applaud Mr. Hoyt for standing up for his Christian / Biblical values. We need more conservative Christians like him to restore this Nation.
Dan,
You have been a loud voice on campus for a while. We all remember the heat discussions on our lists.
Blogs are free, so my blogging is worth what you pay for. I can say the same about yours.
I think it is rather surprising that there are so few conservative voices in our local blog-o-sphere. Even your comments are rarely directed at local issues.
The more discussion, the better!!
>>Anonymous said...I applaud Mr. Hoyt for standing up for his Christian / Biblical values. We need more conservative Christians like him to restore this Nation.<<
Ha! You are kidding, right? Hoyt and his sort are not doing God's work! They are PAWNS of SATAN! They are setting up a simple-minded system that makes it impossible for any intelligent person to be with God! They are saying, if you use the mind that God gave you, the one thing that sets us off from all his other creations, to look at the world and understand it, you are evil! But if you are foolish enough to blindly accept patent allegory as historical fact, THEN you are saved! Under those ridiculous circumstances, WHO WILL BE SAVED??? NO ONE! SATAN WINS! Millions turn their backs on God because even a brain-damaged gerbil can see that while Genesis teaches great truths, it is NOT factual! They swear allegience to the WORDS, but ignore the MESSAGE!
The faithful who acknowledge God as author of Creation while not worrying about the details are with God. THEY have faith. THEY trust God. The faithful who keep the New Covenant and keep Christ's message of love and compassion in their hearts are with God. THEY are doing God's will.
Hatemongers who spew divisiveness, who make it impossible for any thinking person to come to God, are with Satan.
Demagogues who worry about this mortal world and its sordid politics of power instead of the coming kingdom are with Satan. Egotists who want to push others around and subjugate the world to their way of thinking are with Satan.
Daniel Hoyt may be an earnest well-meaning God-fearing person, but he is no more a Christian than Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church. He is a dupe, a stooge, a pawn of Satan. He needs to get himself straight and look in his heart and see what the Christian message REALLY is. He has to realize that his simple-minded fundamentalist drivel DRIVES PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD.
Better to be someone who simply ignores God than a Daniel Hoyt who actively works AGAINST him!
Two thoughts, Mr. Hoyt:
"By their fruits ye shall know them." Your simple-minded weed bears bitter fruit. You drive people away from God. You give folks like Winnie Bloggo the idea that Christians are hateful conspirators to be feared. You give intelligent people the idea
that you have to be an idiot to be Christian. THAT is what Satan wants. I do not doubt that you BELIEVE you are doing the right thing, but what you are doing unwittingly is firmly entrenching Satan as Lord of this mortal world.
"Judge not lest ye be judged." There is nothing wrong with calling sinners to Christ. But that conversion has to come from within them. It cannot be imposed on them legislatively by holier-than-thou demagogues. Sin is between God and the individual. Christianity is first and foremost a personal relationship. It is not a mass cultural movement, it is not a political party.
Christ WARNED us of people like you. He said there would come those who CLAIM to be with us but who are not. He said they would "deceiveth the whole world." How could so many good people be deceived unless they THOUGHT they were doing God's will. LOOK IN YOUR HEART! Forget politics, forget social ills, forget the laws of men. LOOK IN YOUR HEART and turn to God.
Mr. Hoyt:
Well, I figure if our host Winnie Bloggo doesn't have to 'fess up to who he is, why should I? When in Rome ...
So, explain to me again why a Christian has to dredge up OLD Testament examples to bolster his views? Pretty much superseded by Christ's ministry, wasn't it? A NEW Covenant? YOU can follow the example of Jethro if you like, but I'm sticking by Jesus.
And FWIW, I'm not too hot on Paul and his epistles, either. I don't think he really understood the message all that well himself. Or the Gospel of John, for that matter; too much mysticism obfuscating a simple message. If I had my way, the NT Canon would just contain the three Synoptic Gospels and nothing else. Maybe Acts, only because it's older than the extant Gospels. The rest of it does not seem any more divinely inspired than a papal bull or the 95 Theses or this message.
And I'm not calling names. I'm asking you to THINK about what you do, and ask yourself, in light of the GOSPEL message, if it is truly the way to behave.
Sorry, I forgot your request for chapter-'n'-verse:
Matthew 7:15
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."
Matthew 24:10-12
"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold"
Nemesis:
It seems to me you have called Mr. Hoyt a "pawn of satan", a "hatemonger", "simple-minded"; "unintelligent" and a deceiver. I think he's got you on the who's demonstrating love platform.
And if your Bible only contains three or four books then what kind of a "christian" can you possibly be? How do you explain 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
I wonder what kind of a church you attend that teaches such a stripped down version of Bible... It's no wonder you hold the opinions you do.
Your example only serves to strengthen Mr. Hoyt's very clear points. I too applaud him for his courageous stand in such a hostile environment as the one people like you create.
If the University is to be a place for open dialogue and intellectual debate then why try to stifle the very thing we are suppose to be engaging in?
Anonymous said...
"It seems to me you have called Mr. Hoyt a "pawn of satan", a "hatemonger", "simple-minded"; "unintelligent" and a deceiver."
It would be very difficult to discuss the problem without those words, now wouldn't it? I think I made it quite clear that I consider him an earnest well-meaning man who has been duped, tricked, not a willing collaborator. Better men than him and me have been fooled by Satan into thinking they were doing God's will. How can I call to his attention his mortal peril without these words?
And FWIW, many of those comments were not directed point-blank at Mr. Hoyt, but rather at the viewpoint he represents. He is the local representative of a particular socio-political movement, and so my complaints about that movement have been channeled to him. In fact, I was REALLY sore at the "anonymous" who praised Mr. Hoyt for "bringing God and Bible" to our nation's politics or whatever. THAT is the nimrod I was really sore at.
>>And if your Bible only contains three or four books then what kind of a "christian" can you possibly be?<<
Because they are the books that contain Christ's own words, not some chucklehead's INTERPRETATION of them.
It would not surprise me at all if Paul were the Anti-Christ, hijacking the Church at its infancy and leading it away from God's plan. Maybe even HE was a dupe! He was blinded by the *light* on the road to Damascus, and thought it was God. But you KNOW whose name is Latin for "bearer of light" don't you? LUCIFER!
The MESSAGE is in the Synoptical Gospels; it's all there. (In fact, if the "Q" document were intact, I wouldn't need the Synoptics!) A good Christian does not NEED all those other books. They are the products of men, not God. They are prone to human failure. Is there anything that you as a Christian REALLY need from those other books? They are clutter! Do you realize how many other books are out there, of similar age and credentials, that did not make the canon? READ about the early Church; you will see it was not a Godly thing at all, but a WORLDLY thing.
>>How do you explain 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".<<
Because that is not GOD's word, that's Timothy's! I already explained that I do not consider the epistles to be God's word. Why do you? Because your Sunday School teacher said so? GO TO THE SOURCE! Use the mind God gave you! Read, study, get the facts! God didn't make stupid people, he didn't make us blind. "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make ye free!"
>>I wonder what kind of a church you attend<<
I do not attend church. The churches of Christendom are HUMAN institutions, in and of this world, and prone to the same foibles as any human institution. Christ did not found a church; he merely called his children to him. I have a personal relationship with Christ. That is all one needs. Churches have caused too much misery in this world to be a Godly thing.
>>If the University is to be a place for open dialogue and intellectual debate then why try to stifle the very thing we are suppose to be engaging in?<<
What university? I just wandered into this cyberplace. And just where exactly have I attempted to stifle discussion? Have I not engaged Mr. Hoyt in conversation here? Have I not read his posts and responded to them? Have I attempted to delete his messages or prevent him from posting? No!
Don't be such a putz! If you are a university student, your university is doing a pathetic job of teaching critical thinking if you equate disagreement with oppression! Would you then force me agree with him, so I don't "hurt his feelings"? Who is being oppressed then? Use your brain!
I do not agree with Mr. Hoyt's views of religion and politics (or Winnie Bloggo's, for that matter), but at the same time I acknowledge his inalienable right to worship God as he sees fit. I am pleased that he has taken time to respond to me. I've enjoyed making my views known and hearing his. I sincerely hope he will ponder the things I have said, and realize I say them not with malice, but with sincere concern.
Sorry, one last thought:
Did you ever wonder about the statement in Revelation 14: 1-3 (not that I place much credence in Revelation)that ONLY 144,000 will be saved in end times? In a world of billions, that is NOTHING!!
"Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth."
MAYBE, just MAYBE, that's the number of folks who accepted Christ a their personal savior but who refused to be seduced by the churches of Christendom! Maybe belonging to a CHURCH is a sure way to be locked OUT of the kingdom!
Ye Gods! You Christians seem to be full of hate for each other. No wonder the Church of FSM is growing
Why bother to worry about Hoyt? His rants are so long and incoherent that few people have the patience to try and read them.
yeah but Hoyt has some very scary ideas like pushing for local witch hunts against suspected illegal immigrants.
>>Nemesis - You master of catch phrases you. If you bothered to study the entire Bible you would realize that the Old Testament is the building block for the New Testament.<<
Well, of course it is. Yet Jesus made it quite clear that he came to replace The Law. That there was a New Covenant. I mean, do YOU keep kosher? Do you follow all the prohibitions laid down in Leviticus etc.? Must Christians be circumscised to enjoy redemption? I'd be very surprised.
>>When Christ was tempted in the desert what did He quote from?<<
Well, DUH! It's all they had then! Acts wasn't written till YEARS after he died and the Gospels even later. He was a man of his times and environment; what was he supposed to quote? You might as well criticize him for not quoting Hemingway ...
>>If it's good enough for Jesus to use when battling Satan then it's good enough for me.<<
Geez, I wish you could see how ignorant that sounds.
>>And to say that you don't attend a church because the "church" is a human institution... Well to quote from your own very short New Testament Bible in the book of Matthew didn't Christ state in 16:18 "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." It seems to me that Jesus established the church to be built by humans, starting with Peter and continuing until now.<<
Gee, are you a papist then? Do you obey the dictates of the Bishop of Rome? Catholics use that line to defend the papacy; I thought Protestants largely ignored it.Given how long after Jesus' death the gospels were written, that could well be later intercolation. Like the Elohist insertions in Genesis 2, telling Noah to take seven of clean animals and two of the unclean ... despite the fact that God doesn't define clean and unclean for another several thousand years. Yeah, I don't guess the early church leaders would have ANY reason to insert justification for their primacy into the gospels. Just because it's the word of God dsoesn't mean humans haven't mnucked around in it.
The ONLY basis to believe on Jesus is FAITH. You cannot argue on his behalf, you cannot use logic on his behalf, you cannot demonstrate him via forensics. The church is a human institution and thus flawed. The Bible is a human creation and thus flawed. NEITHER can be depended upon. The only things that can safely be depended upon are things that God created, like your HEART and your MIND. That's what the Gnostics were all about. Each person must relate to God individually.
Churches are just another brand of fascism, a way for the mean-spirited to push around the gullible and fearful. The Bible has been mucked with so badly, God only knows what of it is his divinely inspired word and what is crap. There is "signal" in there, but it would take the wisdfom ofSolomon to thresh the wheat from the abundant chaff. The only path to salvation is through Jesus Christ. You DON'T need a church for that.
Actually, I am quite glad that I posted a link to Dan Hoyt's website. The discussion here has been quite interesting. It also, to me, demonstrates the shallowness of Dan Hoyt's interpretation of the bible. Nemesis has done us a service by presenting a very different approach to the reading of scripture.
If more people are exposed to his crass, brutal interpretation of Christianity, it can only help marginalize such thinking. Too few people are willing to challenge the fallacies of interpretation that are rife among the Christianists.
Hoyt does a good job discrediting himself with his extremism.
I used to kind of feel sorry for Mr. Hoyt, when he'd get reamed on the COLS Discussion List. I figured he was just some earnest religious sort who was the target of knee-jerk anti-religious sentiment.
But after reading his blog, I discover he is exactly the sort of political demagogue I most fear, the sort who does an incredible diservice to religion with his radical view of religion.
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